“I know the joy of fishes in the river through my own joy, as I go walking along the same river.”
Chuang Tzu
The Happiness of Fishes
Topic: Joy & Happiness
Chuang Tzu and Hui Tzu
Were crossing Hao river
By the dam.Chuang said:
“See how free
The fishes leap and dart:
That is their happiness.”Hui replied:
“Since you are not a fish
How do you know
What makes fishes happy?”Chuang said:
“Since you are not I
How can you possibly know
That I do not know
What makes fishes happy?”Hui argued:
“If I, not being you,
Cannot know what you know
It follows that you
Not being a fish
Cannot know what they know.”Chuang said:
“Wait a minute!
Let us get back
To the original question.
What you asked me was
‘How do you know
What makes fishes happy?’
From the terms of your question
You evidently know I know
What makes fishes happy.“I know the joy of fishes
In the river
Through my own joy, as I go walking
Along the same river.”
Chuang Tzu, also known as Zhuang Zhou or Zhuangzi, was a luminous presence in an era of transformative thought. He lived around 350 BC, a time of remarkable intellectual ferment in China. As a Taoist philosopher, he embraced a worldview that emphasized balance, the rhythm of nature, and the pursuit of a deeply personal understanding of the universe. His teachings centered on the Tao, a profound concept that represented the underlying order and essence of the cosmos. Unraveling the mystery of the Tao was not about conquering or controlling it, but rather about aligning oneself with its fluid, natural ebb and flow.
Over the millennia, Chuang Tzu's wisdom has been distilled into a collection of sayings, passed down from generation to generation. These teachings, written with a depth and eloquence that resonates across the ages, offer a profound and transformative exploration of existence and our place within it. They invite us to question conventional wisdom, to see the world from different perspectives, and to embrace the inherent uncertainties of life. In their enchanting simplicity and their profound depth, Chuang Tzu's words hold a mirror to our deepest selves, asking us to reflect on who we are and how we relate to the world around us.
These timeless teachings of Chuang Tzu have found resonance far beyond the Taoist tradition. They have become one of the fundamental sources for Zen Buddhism, a spiritual path that shares Taoism's emphasis on mindfulness, simplicity, and the pursuit of enlightenment through direct experience. In this way, Chuang Tzu's legacy reaches across the centuries, touching lives and shaping philosophies far beyond the borders of his own time and place. His wisdom continues to illuminate the path for those seeking understanding, inviting us all to engage deeply with the mysteries of existence and our place within the cosmos.
The Zhuangzi
Merton, Thomas. The Way of Chuang Tzu. New Directions Books, 2010, p. 44 [The Way of Chuang Tzu, Thomas Merton (New Directions Books)].
Chuang Tzu
Theme: Happiness and Well-being
About this Chuang Tzu Quote [Commentary]
Chuang Tzu’s reflection, “I know the joy of fishes in the river through my own joy, as I go walking along the same river,” explores the idea that happiness is not only a personal experience but a shared, universal one. In his dialogue with Hui Tzu, Chuang Tzu observes the fishes’ joy, prompting a philosophical inquiry. Hui Tzu questions how Chuang Tzu can know the fishes’ happiness if he is not a fish. Chuang Tzu responds by pointing to a deeper connection—his own joy mirrors the fishes’ happiness, allowing him to understand their experience. This suggests that empathy and connection with nature help us perceive the joy of others.
In this exchange, Chuang Tzu implies that happiness can be understood beyond the limits of logic or personal experience. While Hui Tzu focuses on the barriers to understanding another’s inner world, Chuang Tzu transcends this by recognizing a more intuitive connection between beings. Walking by the river, he sees that joy is not bound by rigid distinctions, and his ability to feel the fishes’ happiness aligns with the Taoist view of oneness with nature, where differences between self and other blur.
Chuang Tzu’s perspective invites reflection on happiness and well-being as experiences that connect all living beings. By recognizing the joy of the fishes through his own, he shows how happiness is not an isolated state but one that resonates across life. The simple act of walking by the river, immersed in nature, creates a sense of harmony and shared existence. Through this shared joy, Chuang Tzu highlights that true well-being comes from a deeper connection with the world around us.
Nicolas Le Jeune, The Art of Dialogue [Excerpted Commentary]
Many of the participants of Socrates and Chuang Tzu’s [Zhuangzi’s] dialogue are people who considered themselves as very knowledgeable or even wise and therefore who are over-confident about the truth of their opinion. This kind of individuals become enclosed in their own knowledge and their idea of themselves. The first purpose of the dialogue for Socrates and Chuang Tzu [Zhuangzi] is to undermine this state of mind so that can be more open to the real value of the dialogue. For them, the real value of a dialogue is not in its conclusion but in the dialogue itself. Someone over-confident about the truth of his opinions is only satisfied if the conclusion of dialogue proves that he is right. On the contrary, Socrates and Chuang Tzu [Zhuangzi] enjoy the dialogue in itself, even when they have been proved to be wrong.
We can see this in the following dialogue between Chuang Tzu and Huizi: “Zhuangzi and Huizi were strolling along the bridge over the Hao River. Zhuangzi said, “The minnows swim about so freely, following the openings wherever they take them. Such is the happiness of fish.” Huizi said, “You are not a fish, so whence do you know the happiness of fish?” Zhuangzi said, “You are not I, so whence do you know I don’t know the happiness of fish?” Huizi said, “I am not you, to be sure, so I don’t know what it is to be you. But by the same token, since you are certainly not a fish, my point about your inability to know the happiness of fish stands intact.” Zhuangzi said, “Let’s go back to the starting point. You said, ‘Whence do you know the happiness of fish?’ Since your question was premised on your knowing that I know it, I must have known it from here, up above the Hao River.”
We see here two differing ideas of the value of the dialogue. For Huizi, a debate has a purpose: find the correct semantic relation between propositions and reality. According to this point of view, Huizi wins the dialogue. The proposition “this is the happiness of fish” has no sense because Zhuangzi and Huizi are not fishes so they cannot know what is the happiness of the fish. However, the sentence “this is the happiness of the fishes” have more a metaphorical signification in the mouth of Chuang Tzu [Zhuangzi]. As he says at the end, he knows the happiness of the fish “from here, up above the Hao river”. And what is he doing on this bridge? He is strolling and discussing with Huizi. When he talked about the happiness of the fishes, he was actually referring to his happiness to discuss and stroll with Huizi. He lost the discussion on the propositional ground but nevertheless, he is still enjoying the conversation. Moreover, this dialogue put in relation the practice of dialogue with another activity: strolling. Yet, strolling corresponds to the way the sage lives in the world for Zhuangzi. The activity of strolling is characterized by the absence of predetermined purpose and therefore is an activity that has its value in itself. Zhuangzi enjoys dialoguing as he enjoys strolling. For him, The value of dialogue reside in its actual practice and not in its conclusion. That is why the essential for him is not to win the debate, but to takes pleasure in the dialogue itself.
—Le Jeune, Nicolas. Socrates and Zhuangzi: The Art of Dialogue. PDF, n.d. [Zhuangzi. Zhuangzi: The Essential Writings with Selections from Traditional Commentaries. Translated by Brook Ziporyn, Page 74].
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